Curt Harlow [00:00:00]:
Hello, my friend, Pastor Curt here of our Bayside Auburn campus. And I'm joined, as always, with the frontal lobe of Bayside and all things Thrive podcast. Dana Davidson. How you doing, Dena?
Dena Davidson [00:00:13]:
I'm good. Excited.
Curt Harlow [00:00:13]:
Good. I know you're excited because we have Blue Oaks one and only. Jason Caine. Hey. So glad to be here on the Bible study pod. Yeah, Jason, last week Kevin was on and he was really promoting his marriage podcast, always. Would you like to promote a podcast or?
Jason Caine [00:00:31]:
I don't have a podcast. I don't have a book. All I. I just have a local church that I pastor. That's where my attention goes.
Curt Harlow [00:00:38]:
Boom.
Jason Caine [00:00:39]:
Just like.
Curt Harlow [00:00:40]:
Just like faithful to Jesus.
Jason Caine [00:00:41]:
Just faithful to my assignment, you know, Faithful to Jesus.
Curt Harlow [00:00:44]:
I'm. I'm actually very, very. All kidding aside, very excited that you're here because you're one of my favorite Bible thinkers. And of course, on the Bible study, what we do is we just take a passage that we're studying here in the Bayside universe and we go a deeper dive into it from the angle of what makes a good Bible study person. Kind of one of some of the principles. So we're in Acts 21. I'm gonna get right to it here. Acts 21.
Curt Harlow [00:01:08]:
We're starting verse 10, and we've picked a little section here that's gonna be phenomenal. Welcome, all you cessationists. We're gonna talk about prophecy.
Jason Caine [00:01:17]:
Let's go.
Curt Harlow [00:01:17]:
We're gonna talk about. Does prophecy still happen? Paul gets a prophetic message. Here it is starting at verse 10. By the way, pull out your Bible unless you're driving. Here's how we do it. After we had. There is Cesarea Cesaria. After we've been there, Paul and the team Luke and those guys, a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea, coming over to us.
Curt Harlow [00:01:41]:
He took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it, and said, the Holy Spirit says, in this way, the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles. Verse 12. When he heard this, when we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go to Jerusalem. Then Paul answered, why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but to also die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said, the Lord's will be done. After this, we started on our way to Jerusalem. So, Dena, we have this example of Someone with a very specific and very Agabus says he's really confident. He's confident enough to walk up to Paul and take his belt off of him.
Curt Harlow [00:02:36]:
That's an interesting scene. And then I don't know how this guy must have been flexible because he ties himself his own self up. But it's a very specific word. And then Paul says, thank you for that word. But doesn't actually he. He. I don't know if he rejects the word, but he certainly doesn't say, I'm not. I'm going to Jerusalem, I'm going to do it.
Curt Harlow [00:02:56]:
Even if this happens. What's your take? How should we look at this passage and be exegetically, hermeneutically accurate to what's going on here?
Dena Davidson [00:03:04]:
Yeah, I think, and foremost Luke is recording this for a point, but mostly because it happened. And so there's a point we can extract, but let's pause and just realize this actually happened. Which means that there was a man who heard from God something that Paul had not yet heard. And he had the responsibility of going and communicating it to Paul. And I think about what that must have been like. Like at that point, Paul had done so many miracles. He was God's appointed apostle to the Gentiles.
Curt Harlow [00:03:36]:
Yeah, he'd been on the front page of the Macedonian times multiple times.
Dena Davidson [00:03:40]:
Exactly. Even going to the Jerusalem Council and saying, you know, this is what God has done in my life. And receiving their authority and approval to go preach. And so then there's this man, Agabus, who's only appeared in Acts one time before he has the gall to hear from God and then go and say, this is what God wants you to know, Paul. And I think it's an interesting moment because Paul had the Holy Spirit. Why didn't the Holy Spirit just simply communicate it to Paul?
Curt Harlow [00:04:05]:
Great question.
Dena Davidson [00:04:05]:
It's this excellent moment where Luke is saying, this is shared leadership. The Holy Spirit isn't just within Paul. God is not simply working just through Paul. It's always been Jesus is one, but he has many followers and he's put the Spirit into the followers and he's accomplishing his mission not just through one man. And I think there can be this honest opportunity for us to gut check and say, are we following the Spirit or are we following a specific person?
Curt Harlow [00:04:35]:
That's so very good. And from a Bible study point of view, it really makes the point that we need each other to interpret God correctly.
Dena Davidson [00:04:48]:
That's right.
Curt Harlow [00:04:48]:
Correct. Here's a great example of we need each other or oftentimes we'll only have part of the picture. I love it. Yep. Mr. Jason.
Jason Caine [00:04:59]:
Yes, sir.
Curt Harlow [00:04:59]:
Give us some insight when you read this passage. And you. Let's say you're coaching your young son, Jason iii.
Jason Caine [00:05:07]:
No, no, just the second.
Curt Harlow [00:05:08]:
Just the second.
Jason Caine [00:05:09]:
Okay.
Curt Harlow [00:05:09]:
You're coaching your young son on how to study the Bible. Study how to study the Bible correctly. What would you tell them about this passage?
Jason Caine [00:05:15]:
Yeah, I would tell them a few things, I think, because we are going through the book of Acts, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. When I read this and it re. And it says, talks about Paul being dis, he could not be dissuaded, it immediately takes me back in my mind to Acts chapter 17. There's a ride in Athens. He wants to go and approach the crowd. The people tell him not to do it. And in that instance, they were able to dissuade him from doing what he wanted to do. But in this instance in chapter 21, he's not bowing down to what they're saying, essentially.
Jason Caine [00:05:47]:
So when I would tell my son to read this, I think I would tell him different times call you to do different things, and you can be faithful to God in both. And so Paul gets this. This word of prophecy from. Is it Agabus? Is that we say it.
Curt Harlow [00:06:03]:
That's where we're standing on the podcast.
Jason Caine [00:06:04]:
Yeah. The Bible says he gets his word from him, and he essentially. It sounds like he ignores them. But it's not like Agabus says, hey, the spirit is telling you not to go. He's just saying, if you go, this is what is going to happen. And then later on, that is actually what happens. And so Paul is boldly saying, man, I'm sticking to what I feel like the Spirit is leading me to do. So there's communal element to us following Christ, and I think we should be in community and we should listen to those around us.
Jason Caine [00:06:30]:
I think it's a general principle, like the Bible clearly says in Proverbs, that good decisions happen with a multitude of counselors. But there are some times where you have a Holy Spirit conviction and you just know you have to do something and you need to do it. So that's kind of what I would say to my son. I also would say that I would talk to him about prophecy. So we know there are schools of thoughts about prophecy. There are people who believe prophecy still happens. People believe it's done. I'm in the camp that believes it's still happens, because I've seen it happen, and I've seen it Happen in ways that I think are faithful to the Bible and ways that are not faithful to the Bible.
Jason Caine [00:07:04]:
So as when we think about prophecy, I think we need to make sure that it's what we see in God's word. Because a lot of people claim to be prophets, but they don't be prophesying, they be prophet lying. And so they just saying whatever they think, but they lying. This ain't from the Lord. Right.
Curt Harlow [00:07:21]:
So how do you know if someone is lying? And how do you know if the prophecy is fleshly, emotional, unbiblical, untethered to the Bible versus man? I really have a sense from the Lord and because God works in community and because God wants us to be an old guy that disciplined Michael Mowry used to say we're not independent and we're not codependent. We're interdependent. Right. We have equal roles to play with each other. And this is a perfect example that to your point, Dena, how do you tell if it's biblical or fleshly?
Jason Caine [00:07:57]:
Yeah. So I would say one of the main things that scripture teaches, and I took a little, a few notes here, it tells us to test what a prophet is saying to us.
Curt Harlow [00:08:04]:
Yes.
Jason Caine [00:08:05]:
So I think one of the first things we have to do is we have to receive the message in humility and say there may be some truth to what this person is saying. Let me begin to examine it. Let me put it through a test to see if what they're saying is actually accurate. So if somebody says they have a word for you, be curious enough to listen and then you test it to see if it is valid. So I think the test is this, does it align with scripture? If somebody comes to me and tells me, hey man, I see you with another woman, she's going to be your wife, I'll be like, no, I'm already married. I don't need another one. That's mess. Right.
Jason Caine [00:08:38]:
And so you test it to see if what they are saying, does it align with scripture. I also think that you got to evaluate the fruit of what they're saying. So if it's a prophecy, it's going to happen. And you can say, oh, this person knows what they're talking about. What else?
Curt Harlow [00:08:53]:
Do they have a reliable track.
Jason Caine [00:08:54]:
Track record?
Curt Harlow [00:08:54]:
Is that what you're saying?
Jason Caine [00:08:55]:
100. Do they have a track record?
Curt Harlow [00:08:57]:
I tell the thread students all the time, you want to get your advice from God, honoring people with a long history of faithfulness.
Jason Caine [00:09:05]:
Another way that I've heard that said is when you join a church Find a man or a woman who's got a beat up Bible and ask them as many questions as you can.
Curt Harlow [00:09:12]:
I love it.
Jason Caine [00:09:12]:
Which is a little harder to do today because we got digital Bibles. But you get the Prince, the general principle.
Curt Harlow [00:09:16]:
My cover on my iPad's getting pre.
Jason Caine [00:09:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get a new one. So then we don't know. Curt's not reading his word. What's happening here? I think another thing that is essential is, is does this person have something to gain?
Curt Harlow [00:09:29]:
That's a great question.
Jason Caine [00:09:30]:
Because manipulation. If they're manipulating you, then that's probably not it. Hey, God told me you were going to be my wife. Well, come on, bro, stop that. You're manipulating her. If that's what's supposed to happen, it will happen.
Curt Harlow [00:09:41]:
Can I tell you a little story here?
Jason Caine [00:09:42]:
Yes, please.
Curt Harlow [00:09:43]:
Okay, so back to the I've seen it work versus I've seen it work wrong My exact same time. I've seen things in my own personal life that, that are very biblical, rooted in scripture, God honoring kingdom forward. And I needed to hear it. And I wouldn't have heard it by myself. I needed the body of Christ to help me hear that. And then I've seen that exact thing. Agenda taking the Lord's name in vain was very serious. So I was at a church way back when I was younger and the board was having dispute over something.
Curt Harlow [00:10:16]:
And this was a Pentecostal church. And one of the elders stood up in the Sunday night services where prophecies in tongues could happen. We didn't do Sunday morning. Sunday night, yes. And he said, the Lord wants to say. And he gave his position on the board dispute.
Jason Caine [00:10:32]:
Of course.
Curt Harlow [00:10:33]:
And then right after that worship's playing and everything, the next board member stands up and says. I think the Lord would also say. And he gave his position.
Dena Davidson [00:10:42]:
Amazing.
Curt Harlow [00:10:42]:
On the other side. And so I guess the Lord was duplicitous in his mind.
Jason Caine [00:10:46]:
Correct.
Curt Harlow [00:10:47]:
But it is true. That's. Until you said that, I didn't realize. Agenda is an incredibly important question when we're actually. What is the most biblical way to respond to this?
Jason Caine [00:10:57]:
Yeah. And then even taking it to the extreme. So my dad, US Military, you know this story. Curt has to go to Guyana because a guy named Jim Jones has professed to be a prophet, convinced all these people to drink the Kool Aid. It wasn't literally Kool Aid.
Curt Harlow [00:11:10]:
Sports.
Jason Caine [00:11:11]:
And these people ended up dying because someone told them a prophecy.
Dena Davidson [00:11:15]:
Men, women, children.
Jason Caine [00:11:16]:
Men, women, children. A congressperson. And these people ended up dying because this man used his spiritual authority to tell a lie that he claimed was prophecy, and they lost their lives. So you have to take it very seriously. You gotta be. You gotta be embedded in God's word and you gotta test what someone has told you. Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:11:35]:
When I go. Go ahead.
Dena Davidson [00:11:36]:
I should say, like, this is the opposite of what happens. You have the charismatic leader, Paul, who is being. He's. He's not the one that everyone is following. People are not following after Paul. They're following after the spirit. And that is so clear in the book of Acts. And every cult been based around a personality, someone who elevates themselves to the position of being God's voice.
Dena Davidson [00:11:59]:
And all through Acts, we see so many counter examples. No person, correct, singular, is God's voice.
Jason Caine [00:12:06]:
Right.
Dena Davidson [00:12:06]:
His voice is in all of his people. Which is why we need to be in community testing. And, you know, part of the mistake that that community made is they had isolated themselves from the voice of the church, bringing correction to what their charismatic leader was saying.
Curt Harlow [00:12:21]:
Y. Yeah. When I interviewed your dad at Hill's church, he. He literally gave this answer. He said, I decided after that. I don't think he was a believer.
Jason Caine [00:12:28]:
He wasn't a believer at that time.
Curt Harlow [00:12:30]:
I'm going to learn the Bible, so no one will ever be able to fool me the way this man fooled these guys. Okay? So, Dena, I want to get to this thing because we just. We have a thing called Sermon Prep. All the three of us were in it today. It's my favorite meeting we do at Bayside without a doubt.
Jason Caine [00:12:47]:
And real quick, I just want to say, doesn't Sermon Prep feel like what you thought it was going to be like working at a church? Like, we're going to sit around and debate the Bible? Not debate the Bible, talk about the Bible. Bible.
Curt Harlow [00:12:56]:
Like, feed off each other's ideas, insights.
Jason Caine [00:12:59]:
And now I'm in a meeting about how many inflatables do we need in the lobby? You know, like, come on, let's get back to school. But all these things are necessary.
Curt Harlow [00:13:07]:
Yes. The mandatory reporter.
Jason Caine [00:13:09]:
Yeah. Come on, man.
Curt Harlow [00:13:10]:
We have to do by video anyway, versus Sermon Prep. Wanted to say that is really my favorite meeting. Okay, so we're in Sermon Prep. And you. So Mark Clark's got an opinion. Wesley town's got a pain. I mean, theological degrees are flowing, and Dena, who's got her own higher degrees, at the end of it, someone said, dina, say something. Dena's like, I disagree with everyone.
Curt Harlow [00:13:31]:
So let me set you up here. So you. There's kind of Two ways to think about this. One way is Agabus comes, he's got a word from the Lord, but he doesn't. And I think you alluded to this, Jason. He doesn't give Paul the application. He just says, this is what's going to happen. But he doesn't say, therefore don't go to Jerusalem or you're in sin if you go to Jerusalem.
Curt Harlow [00:13:55]:
He just says, man, this is going to be very, very serious. And so the one way is going, ok, this was a word from the Lord, and Paul was totally obedient in listening to it and still going to Jerusalem. The other way is to say, wow, the Bible records all of our heroes with every little flaw that they have. And that maybe at this point, Paul is so eager to get back to Jerusalem, he's had such a rough road in Macedonia and Greece, and he's so ambitious to be a part of the core of Christianity in Jerusalem that maybe he ignores a clear warning from the Lord, don't do this. And whatever side you come down on that. I think this is a really good example. When I read this passage, it's a really good example of faith versus discernment. So faith is.
Curt Harlow [00:14:45]:
I say yes to a risk that God puts in front of me. Right by faith. I'm going to go join the staff at Bayside or I'm going to go to Cal State Stanislaus, our first ministry assignment here in California. I'm going to take that risk. Discernment is. God does not want me to take that risk. This is a foolish risk. This is untimely.
Curt Harlow [00:15:05]:
And I think we do such a good job of encouraging people to have more faith and we almost never do. What you just did is encourage them to have more discernment, which is what's the motive? Is this aligned with the word of God? A lot of my. And I have some cessationist friends. If you don't know what cessationism is, it's the, the way that the apostles laid hands on people and they experienced the supernatural. Before the Bible became the can, the canon of the Bible became standard church that has passed away. So this a teaching that starts with Calvin and he's like, yeah, you don't lay hands on people and get supernatural gifts like Paul and the crew did. That's passed away because we have the perfect now, the Bible. I, I don't agree that when the perfect comes, those things will pass away.
Curt Harlow [00:15:54]:
I don't believe that means the Bible. I'm not a cessationist, but I do have A lot of cessation as friends. And they'll say, yeah, you guys that believe in the supernatural, you start with your experience, then you go to the Bible. Not to say a lot of times they're right. A lot of times there's just a lack of discernment there. They're not so much right that I'm giving up on miracles, because after all, God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Take that, dispensationalist. But okay, now I'm getting ADD here.
Curt Harlow [00:16:25]:
Dena, which one is it? Did Paul hear the prophecy and obey even though he went to Jerusalem, or did he hear the prophecy and not obey? And we just get a little insight into maybe Paul was a human like the rest of us.
Dena Davidson [00:16:42]:
Honestly, the point I was making in sermon prep is, I don't know, one of the things that I'm always trying to tune into in sermon prep, like my particular presence, the question I want to bring is, is that what the Bible's actually saying? And so I'm very.
Curt Harlow [00:16:56]:
Thus the reason she's on this podcast.
Dena Davidson [00:16:58]:
Every week, I'm always looking out for what are the things that we're assuming or we're taking extra biblically that are not actually in the passage. And I think one of the things that is not actually in the passage is that Paul for sure was supposed to go to Jerusalem. I. Maybe he was supposed to go to Jerusalem. Maybe the point I was trying to make is maybe God did want him to go to Jerusalem. Maybe God didn't want him to go to Jerusalem. Maybe God was actually neutral and was actually giving Paul the choice of whether he wanted to go to Jerusalem. He was giving him all the facts about what was going to happen and saying, you've been so faithful.
Dena Davidson [00:17:34]:
This is a moment where you get to kind of like choose your own adventure. And whatever you do, I will sovereignly accomplish my will, which is to ultimately take you to Rome. So that was my point that I was making, is I think we've assumed, because we're rah rah Paul, we're his, you know, we're his cheerleaders at this point. He's been so faithful that if he makes a choice, we assume it's the right one. And so I was just raising the question, are we sure? Are we sure that Paul was actually supposed to go to Jerusalem? Or maybe this is something that he just chose to do? I don't think. I don't think. Contrary to God's will, I actually don't think that's in the passage possibly, but I think It's a better case that God was either giving him the choice or that Paul was so convicted that the Holy Spirit wanted this that he chose to do it.
Curt Harlow [00:18:17]:
That's kind of controversial. You're saying sometimes God doesn't care which way we decide. By the way, Dena, this is what I love, what you do when you're studying the Bible. You do this with the Thrive students. I've seen it a thousand. And you do it in sermon prep. You ask the difficult question of the passage, sometimes talking about just how you study the Bible. We are so Pollyannish and so spiritually looking.
Curt Harlow [00:18:40]:
We just go on and go, ok, but you usually stop. You did at the very beginning of this podcast, by the way, and go. This brings up this question that really kind of annoys me. And that's great Bible study skill. So, but, but anyway, yeah, yeah, absolutely can.
Dena Davidson [00:18:54]:
So the way I got to that question is I think everyone else had been studying the commentators who have thought deeply about this and had resolved the question.
Curt Harlow [00:19:02]:
Oh, so they taking shortcuts.
Dena Davidson [00:19:04]:
I, I think they read the passage and then they took a little bit of a shortcut. I had in preparation for the Bible study. I have listened to the last like five chapters of acts like 20 times in preparation for today. And so these conflicts of the way that Luke keeps talking about Paul being obedient to what the spirit, those were just fresh in my mind. And so I think sometimes when we do Bible study, we do jump to the best thinkers on a subject, but it's helpful sometimes to back it up and say, let's ask the question for ourself. We might land in the same place as those great thinkers, but let's also value the questions.
Curt Harlow [00:19:41]:
That's very, very good. Okay, let me pose a question to both of you guys. Is God neutral about some of our decisions?
Jason Caine [00:19:47]:
100% believe that God is neutral about some of our decisions. And this is what we have from Scripture, Romans 8:28. And we know that all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose. And so I think there are cases and instances in our life where God gives us options. I moved here from Atlanta and I feel like it was a clear calling to come here, had a Holy Spirit experience, a prophecy, chance to come. But if I stayed in Atlanta, that doesn't mean that God wouldn't continue to work through my life or that his.
Curt Harlow [00:20:19]:
Some somehow the whole future of the church.
Jason Caine [00:20:21]:
Because yeah, it's not like, you know, you go down one road, you make one wrong decision and you're out of God's will for the rest of your life. Like, that's, that's not realistic. You know, it's, it's the same. And this is maybe a controversial thing. People talking about, my spouse is the one. There's probably a million other people you could have married and made it work, because you're going to follow the way of Jesus in your life and it's going to work out.
Curt Harlow [00:20:42]:
Out. Now, I always say your spouse is the one after your vows.
Jason Caine [00:20:47]:
Sure.
Curt Harlow [00:20:47]:
Correct.
Jason Caine [00:20:49]:
At that point, it's settled right before your vows. So, yes, God. God does give us options. But we also do see in Scripture that there are people who were specifically told to do specific things. We saw. See that with Paul. We see that with Jonah. Jonah go to Nineveh.
Jason Caine [00:21:03]:
No, I'm going to Tarshish. Where did he end up? Back in Nineveh. And so if God wants you somewhere, he'll get you there. But sometimes God does give us options, and he wants us to be obedient to him and follow him and follow his ways and do what we've been commanded once we get where we're at. And I think that's a wonderful thing about following Jesus.
Dena Davidson [00:21:24]:
Agreed.
Curt Harlow [00:21:25]:
So bottom line, did Paul get this right? Tina? And if it's neutral, how do we know what a neutral decision is, a neutral choice from God is? And what a. You, you got to go to Nineveh. And by the way, I'm gonna win this one.
Dena Davidson [00:21:40]:
I, I think there is no instance in the Book of Acts where God tells Paul, do this, and he disobeys over and over and over again. The man proves faithfulness to God, not perfection, but faithfulness to be obedient. If we can say anything about Paul, it's that he was obedient. So I think there's no way that Paul got this wrong in the sense of being disobedient. I think it's possible. I wouldn't say Paul got this right. I would say God got this right. He used Paul's choices.
Dena Davidson [00:22:09]:
He used Paul's choices to accomplish his will. And so I think this is one of those scenarios where we could, like Paul says to the Corinthians, the one who is unmarried stays unmarried, does even better, the one who marries does well, and the one who stays unmarried does even better. I don't know which one Jerusalem was. Maybe that's the even better. Maybe that's just the good. Either way, God accomplishes what he wanted to accomplish.
Curt Harlow [00:22:33]:
This is a great point that Kevin was making. In last week about knowing how to cross reference. Because that verse is a perfect example of how to explain this. Not every decision before us is the false choice of evil or good. Right, right. And Paul says that very clearly in that instance. I think what's going on here is we mistake what God's goal is. So we're very time bound and we're very calendar oriented.
Curt Harlow [00:23:02]:
And so we think, think God, I need to know what to do on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, a month from now, five years from now, blah, blah, blah. To stay in your will and to have live a good life and a God honoring life. God's like going, you know, the calendar is not really my concern. I'm really more concerned about closeness over calendar.
Jason Caine [00:23:21]:
There we go.
Curt Harlow [00:23:22]:
And so, like, one of the things you've heard me say to Thrive students a lot is if you're figuring out what to do next year, don't ask yourself the question, will I be happiest? How much money will I make? What will make my parents happier? What, after a year of doing it, will make you closer to Jesus and closer to the people that he has in your life.
Jason Caine [00:23:41]:
That's a great question.
Dena Davidson [00:23:42]:
That's right.
Curt Harlow [00:23:43]:
And if I go, that will make me closer to Jesus. The rest of the stuff will take care of itself. So the goal here is not which day Paul shows up in Jerusalem or which day he goes back to Macedonia or Athens. The goal here is, is Paul going to live a life worthy of Luke writing about it and us learning from it 2,000 years ago, which that goal he for sure accomplished. Okay, so let's get practical here because we've been talking at the 50,000 foot level. Miracles still happen. God gives us choices. Agabus and Paul, I would say they're both right, but I like your answer even better, Dena.
Curt Harlow [00:24:26]:
Ultimately, God is right. What should we practically do with this passage? What should we do with this passage? What's our application thought?
Dena Davidson [00:24:36]:
Yeah, I would say make a choice and trust God's sovereignty. I'll speak personally. There have been so many chapters where things have gotten hard at Bayside, and I've gone to God and I'm like, should I stay or should I go? Like, should I. Should I do this thing? Should I do that thing? And each time I just felt God's invitation of saying, like, I'm a great communicator. If I wanted you to know exactly what I wanted you to do, I would let you know. I want you to make a choice. And so each time I've just, I've Said to myself, I'm not going to chase clarity. I'm going to make a choice and I'm going to be faithful to.
Dena Davidson [00:25:14]:
To my church where I am, and I'm. I'm just going to be faithful and I'm going to trust God's sovereignty that if this is not what he wants, then he'll move me away. And if he does want what he does want me here, he'll continue to bless me here and bless the work of my hands. So some of us, we need to stop chasing clarity and we just need to make a choice and trust God's sovereignty. And I look at. I look at how well this worked out for Paul. This worked out so well because Paul, who, who in a different part of the New Testament, he says, I would rather have myself cut off from Christ than my fellow brethren. He has all of these Jewish people who are asking the question, does he even care about being Jewish anym? Does he even care about his fellow brethren? And so he gets the privilege of going to his people, giving one final sermon, and then it's not him who dips out.
Dena Davidson [00:26:08]:
He gets sent away.
Curt Harlow [00:26:10]:
Right.
Dena Davidson [00:26:10]:
And that gets to be Paul's story, because he made a choice here. He made a choice to go to Jerusalem, to be faithful to the calling that God had on his life. And I just think it worked out so beautiful. He still got to go to Rome, which he felt like God was calling him to do. And because he went to Rome, because of what happens later in Acts, he writes all of the New Testament.
Jason Caine [00:26:31]:
Yeah.
Dena Davidson [00:26:31]:
So he made a choice. He trusted God's sovereignty and Paul's story. No one could say he didn't care about the Jews, not after what happens in Jerusalem. I love that. I want that for my life.
Curt Harlow [00:26:43]:
Yeah, great.
Jason Caine [00:26:44]:
So there's a lot of lessons that you can take out of this passage. I actually want to take one that I hadn't thought about until this moment. So for Agabus, he comes to Paul, he gives him this warning. If you go to Jerusalem, you're going to end up locked up in jail, in prison. That's what's going to happen to you. Then they try to dissuade him some more. Paul, please don't go. Please don't go.
Jason Caine [00:27:03]:
Paul says, hey, y'all, stand down. And then what do they say, man? Paul, get out of here. No, that's not what they say at all. They say, the Lord's will be done. And so I think for us, there are people in our lives. And I think about this with my Children, I want to warn them. I want to prepare them for life. I want them to do well.
Jason Caine [00:27:21]:
I feel like there'll probably be times where I feel like the best route for them, but if they get to a point where. Where I can't dissuade them, and this is when they're much older. They're 14 now. When they're 18 or whatever age it may be, I got to say, the Lord's will be done. I'm putting you in God's hand. I'm praying for you. I'm going to be here for you. I'm going to trust that you are making the right decision.
Jason Caine [00:27:42]:
And then ultimately the Lord's will be done. And I think coming to that point takes a lot of maturity when we feel like we know better than the other person knows. And so Paul has to go on his journey. And Agabus isn't bitter at him. He took the time to warn him, which I think we should do. We have people who are around us. We warn them about what their decisions might cost them, and then it's out of our hand, and it's the Lord's will be done.
Curt Harlow [00:28:08]:
Every single character in this story had to humble themselves in some way. Someone else has got a slightly different perspective here. I'm gonna say my piece. I'm gonna speak the truth in love. It's a great thought. Here's my application thought. Live the life of the Spirit. So if you read the book of Romans, there's one way to read it and say, we are saved by faith through grace.
Curt Harlow [00:28:31]:
And certainly that's correct. And please, reform people. Don't send your emails.
Jason Caine [00:28:37]:
They're not watching.
Curt Harlow [00:28:38]:
But if you really listen to what Paul says in Romans over and over again, his major, major theme is live a life in the Spirit. That a life in the Spirit is what produces good works. A life in the Spirit. And here in the Book of Acts, you see it lived out. Paul starts as second mission journey and says, all right, here's the plan. And the Spirit of God says, nope, no, no, don't go there. Don't go back there. Don't visit those folks.
Curt Harlow [00:29:06]:
Stay here. Oh, by the way, here's a dream about the Macedonian man. Go there. That's a lot scarier and further away. And then all the way to this, the end of the second missionary journey, the Apostle Paul is saying, I feel very strongly God wants me to go to Jerusalem. Jerusalem, even to my peril. And so I'm going to make a whole lot of pastors nervous with this. But Remember, Jason said, it's got to be tied to the Bible.
Curt Harlow [00:29:34]:
It's got to be tied to the Bible. It's got to be biblical. God's never going to speak something that is not biblical to you. But I think we should open our ears and say, God, what is it that you're saying to me? And we should do it biblically and in community. Both factors here. But I think most of us, we do seek clarity or more along with that. Maybe we could say we seek God to bless the detailed plan that we've made already. So I would like my kids to do this.
Curt Harlow [00:30:09]:
I'd like my schooling to go this way. I'd like my job to go that way. God, would you please bless that? I promise to not say bad words during that whole time. To tithe and serve a couple times in the children's ministry, as opposed to this morning. God, are you changing my plan? Spirit of God, lead me and direct me. The old Billy Graham quote. If the Holy Spirit was removed from the theology of the church, most congregations would not change at all. And I just.
Curt Harlow [00:30:42]:
There's a dynamic we're missing. And I do think the Spirit still speaks. I think he speaks in community. I think sometimes he speaks in this way because it's too hard for us to listen unless someone else helps us. So I think his favorite way to speak is through the Bible, as we're reading the Bible and hearing the Bible preached. His second favorite way to speak is a still small whisper in our heart and mind that is usually quoting the Bible. And then his third favorite way to speak, I think, is through brothers and sisters that love the Lord and care deeply about us and have heard for us something that maybe our own fears couldn't hear. And I think all that to say, I think we should live the life of the Spirit.
Curt Harlow [00:31:30]:
We should be more open to hearing the Spirit biblically and in community. So any last thoughts?
Jason Caine [00:31:38]:
No last thoughts.
Curt Harlow [00:31:39]:
Yeah, same questions. Comments?
Dena Davidson [00:31:42]:
Okay, I think not. I. I just hope that someone listening is able to take all of this and go seek God, but also start a conversation with some other believers and say, is God saying anything to you about this question?
Curt Harlow [00:31:55]:
So last week I thought, man, Kevin Thompson's episode, that was one of our best episodes. This was so much better than that episode.
Dena Davidson [00:32:02]:
You're just out for Kevin today.
Curt Harlow [00:32:04]:
He's not here, so it makes it fun. Plus, it makes Bri, who's off camera in the frontal lobe of this whole podcast, laugh. But if you disagree with me, put it in the comments, say, no, I liked Kevin's better than Jason's guesting and I want Kevin Moore. Or if you want Jason Caine, I'm voting that way. Put it in there and Bri will see it and we will.
Jason Caine [00:32:23]:
My feelings will not be hurt because I will never see those comments.
Curt Harlow [00:32:27]:
Amen. All kidding aside, we love him. Next week we've got Brandon Short, a resident scholar and rapper. Incredible. He's our campus lead, campus pastor at our Folsom campus. You don't want to miss out where we be going going further on in chapter 22. And then a bunch of Easter content is coming your way. Dean and I have pre recorded some Easter, some special Easter stuff.
Curt Harlow [00:32:51]:
We're gonna have some Palm Sunday stuff there, man. If there's any time to renew your commitment to studying the Bible, it's the Easter season. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to subscribe to this and like this and spread this and send a copy of this to someone you know right now. And together, let's increase our study of the Bible. Thanks for joining us as always. We really appreciate your time.