Dena Davidson [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Bible Study Podcast. So excited to be joined by one of our all time favorite guests, which is Kevin Thompson. He's right here.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:06]:
Yes. It's very hard to get me. Very hard to schedule me. Let's be honest. Can we be honest?
Dena Davidson [00:00:10]:
I think we can be honest.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:11]:
Okay. One of our friends is gonna be on.
Dena Davidson [00:00:13]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:14]:
And they are not feeling well.
Dena Davidson [00:00:16]:
They are not feeling well.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:17]:
I literally walked into the studio.
Dena Davidson [00:00:18]:
Yeah. Literally walked into the studio. Poor lonely me was sitting in front of the mic preparing to teach, and it was like, Kevin, here we are. You saved us.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:26]:
Let's go.
Dena Davidson [00:00:26]:
We don't have to have Dina Talking about Ephesians 4:All on her own. In fact, we get to have Kev perspective. And this is great because there's a real relational bent in this chapter. And so having your wisdom and insight will be very helpful. So let's go ahead and read. Picking up in verses 25. Therefore, each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor. For we are all members of one body.
Dena Davidson [00:00:51]:
In your anger, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. Just stop there because we don't even need to go any further before we start to make some comments. Tell me, what about this speaks to us right here, right now, as it spoke to them?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:10]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously this is as practical of advice as you can possibly get. There are times in which the Bible. We can't say this out loud, but there are times in which the Bible.
Dena Davidson [00:01:19]:
But yet we are in the podcast.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:20]:
Hard to interpret, difficult to apply. It's ancient text, ancient culture. We're living modern lives, and. And it takes all this work to figure it out.
Dena Davidson [00:01:29]:
Yep.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:30]:
All right. Shut up and stop lying. Tell the truth. Got it. Like, absolutely. Now, what I love about this passage, and really the second half of Ephesians, the first half is so theologically rich and we need it. I love it. But now in the second half, you have this very practical concept of what does this look like? So for me, whenever I'm looking here at Ephesians 4, we remember the first three chapters of Ephesians, right? Chapter one, look at everything God has done.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:56]:
Chapter two, let me remind you about salvation. Oh, look at the impact that's having within the church. Jews and Gentiles, Chapter three. Let me pray for you that you will now know what this is. Chapter four. Now, it's the concept of unity. The church needs unity as displayed. Jews and Gentiles at the End of chapter two.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:11]:
How do we get that? Unity? Maturity. Unity is a byproduct of maturity. Okay, what does maturity look like? Well, maturity now looks like this. That's right. It looks like telling the truth. And it goes back to what we talked about two weeks ago, when in chapter four and verse number 15, he says, instead of. Instead speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect, the mature body of him who is in the head, that is Christ. And so he takes a break from that.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:37]:
He kind of jaunts off for a little bit about putting on the new self, taking off the old self. And then he comes back to the very concept of what does it mean now to speak the truth in love? And what strikes me about this now, the end of my diatribe is the relationship between our spoken words and our faith. Because left to my own devices, I can so often just excuse the words that I say. I speak them, they're gone. They mean nothing. They're not really who I am. Jesus, on the other hand, says, out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. So suddenly, the words are the very revelation of where my heart actually is.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:13]:
So it's no surprise here that Paul is gonna hammer this issue.
Dena Davidson [00:03:17]:
That's so good. So therefore, each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. I love how you're calling it back to the overall context of Ephesians, and especially when it says, speaketh the truth in love. Earlier in the passage, I was listening to a scholar expound on that and basically that truth. Sometimes we think of those as, like, the small truths, like, hey, Kevin, you have this frustrating part of your personality. Here's the truth, but I'm gonna tell it to you in love. This. That's in there.
Dena Davidson [00:03:46]:
That idea is in there, but a bigger idea is in there. The scholar was saying that truth refers to the overall doctrine that Paul's been expounding on. It is the only way that we can be unified is if we're constantly speaking the truth. We're reminding each other of the full gospel. And that's how we reach the oneness and maturity, which is one way that.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:09]:
Maybe sometimes we lie and we don't know it, we don't recognize it, that we speak something that is factually accurate. And we think, all right, well, I'm telling the truth, but we're not speaking it within the context of the bigger story.
Dena Davidson [00:04:21]:
That's right.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:22]:
And so even the idea. I used this illustration A couple weeks ago when preaching on speaking truth in love, that from a parenting perspective, we can get so fixated on reprimanding or correcting our child. But if we don't put that in the larger context of this isn't who you are, God still has a purpose and a plan for you. Your story is much bigger than whatever this one mistake is. While what we're saying is factually true, we actually aren't telling the truth because we're not telling the big story of what's taking place. And I think where we get the interpretation of this passage wrong is we so minimize it down into the details of is what I'm saying factually true? Instead of is what I'm saying properly placed within the context of God's bigger story? Let me ask you a question about this passage that I don't fully understand, and I should because I'm your co host on this episode.
Dena Davidson [00:05:14]:
But you just walked in.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:15]:
I did just walk in. The way he says in verse 25. It's an interesting wording to me. So therefore, get it. We're going back to what he just said. And what he just said was put off the old self, put on the new self. You were created to be like God, in true righteousness, holy. Therefore, because of that.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:30]:
All right, got it. Each one of you got it. Everybody. It doesn't apply to just a few. Must put off falsehood. Okay, I get this. Our old way of life was we project a perception, we elevate ourselves in a way that's not true. I'm right there.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:46]:
Speak truthfully. Got it. Why didn't he stop there? Instead he gets more specific. Speak truthfully to your neighbor. All right, one Dina, why you didn't know I was going to ask you this one. Why your neighbor? Why is that even an aspect? And then he seems to take it within the context of the church, which I can kind of understand that the primary context is now the church. It's not first and foremost, you know, somebody down the street or something like that. But why this? Why the wording of to your neighbor? It seems like that phrase is not necessary.
Dena Davidson [00:06:19]:
Yeah, I mean, I think my brain immediately goes to love your neighbor as yourself. I think it's a callback to the greatest commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And then the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself. So I think this is my take on it. No scholar has taught me this, but this is my Adina take on it that he's calling him back to that golden rule and the silver rule that Jesus calls us to. But then he's weaving it into this new image that we have. Everyone is our neighbor, right? Like every human being is our neighbor. But not only are we neighbors to one another, we are also members of one body.
Dena Davidson [00:06:57]:
So I see like a combo of imagery that's used in other parts of the New Testament. That's my take on it.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:04]:
Yeah, I love that idea, that concept that. I mean. And obviously Paul knows a few things, and so the concept of he's almost rhyming lyrics together, it's almost like a mashup that he's doing in this moment. And is it any accident? Because, I mean, for us, since I've studied it, it's been two weeks since we talked about speaking truth in love as Paul's writing that it might have been three minutes ago. And as they're reading it, it's even less than that. So is it possible that he understands this idea of truth and love is already wedded together, so that now whenever he gets in this idea of truth, he's implying the love aspect that is there? I love that.
Dena Davidson [00:07:41]:
I hadn't thought about that 100%. And I also think, like, for we are all members of one body. Like, the standard here is so high. And I don't think, like, Paul. Paul wasn't speaking in a time where it was common for people to hurt their own body. Like, there was this assumed protection of your own self that is in this. In the New Testament setting. So no one's hated his own body.
Dena Davidson [00:08:03]:
Paul says in another place in the Gospels, So when you're thinking about you are members of one body, like, why would you intentionally harm yourself? Like, why would you do that? We understand even today that that's a particular psychosis to be harming yourself. It's a perversion of the way that we know is right and how we should be treating one another. So. But the particular passage I want to camp on a little bit because I think it's been. So it's hard to practice. I think it's understood, but it's hard to practice is where Paul says, in your anger, do not sin. So talk to me. What does it mean to be healthily angry? Like, as someone, myself, like, from the time that I was a young kid, I have struggled with.
Dena Davidson [00:08:52]:
With anger. Like, I was always lashing out verbally and getting in trouble for the things that in anger, I would say, oh.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:59]:
I wouldn't have known that. Confession, wow, can we see that? Can we see that, we're ashamed.
Dena Davidson [00:09:04]:
I wanna see that. Oh, please. The stories you could tell. Also my kids. And then also, thankfully, by the grace of God, this is under control. But as a kid, I would lash out physically and like hurt people. So anger has been a lifelong journey of me figuring out what it means to live in righteous ang, to not deny that aspect of myself, but to live healthily. So, yeah, help us unpack it.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:30]:
Can we do a podcast takeover? We're going to have to switch into Change the odds of the podcast for a moment. We're going to take over the Bible study podcast.
Dena Davidson [00:09:37]:
Tell me your latest fight with Shane.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:39]:
Kurt isn't here, and so we're going to take over because here.
Dena Davidson [00:09:42]:
Change the branding.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:43]:
Here's what we would talk about within. Change the odds. We wed into theology, also psychology. Obviously, theology trumps all things, but psychology plays in. And here's an interesting thing. So Dan Siegel down at UCLA psychiatrist, he invented interpersonal neurobiology. So the concept now of how do our relationships rewire our brain? And one thing he's gonna talk about is of all the needs that we have. Three of them are agency, bonding, certainty.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:12]:
Agency. I need control of my own self. I'm separate from you. I need to make my own decisions, control my own body, have some kind of control over my own destiny. Yeah, bonding. We need to be in a relationship with others. We're not meant to be alone. And then certainty.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:27]:
There has to be some kind of predictability about life where we can't function in any way. And what's interesting is what Siegel has found is when you don't have one of those three things, Agency, bonding, certainty, abc. Easy way to remember that is there's these adverse of emotions that come along. So if you don't have certainty, you have fear or anxiety. So whenever you're anxious, whenever you're afraid, you can ask yourself, what. What am I uncertain about tomorrow that's going on. When you don't have bonding, you have sadness or shame. So whenever your child comes home from school and they're sad, you can immediately ask the question, what relationship feels severed for them? Did they disappoint their teacher? A friend rejected them on the playground.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:05]:
They feel disconnected from me. Sadness or shame go back into bonding. Whenever he talks about agency, he says the adverse of emotion connected with agency is anger, which means whenever anger dwells up within you, your body in some way feels threatened. And you can use that as an interpretive tool to begin to interpret, what is it I'm feeling? Because here's the thing about anger. Anger oftentimes is referred pain. It doesn't express itself where it actually is. I remember one time I had a friend who was a dentist, and she said whenever she was in dental school that they got to the point where they could actually do procedures on other people for free, obviously, because they're testing it out, right? So one guy was in. He was gonna have a cavity filled, and they couldn't get him numb.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:53]:
Just couldn't. She just couldn't get him numb. And so finally, the professor came over and said, is there anything that just feels abnormal? They've given you, like, 15 shots. And the guy goes, my shoulder's wet. What? And the professor goes, your shoulder's wet? And they looked, and the dentist had been sticking the needle all the way through and was squirting it out onto the shoulder, this poor friend. So the presenting symptom was that the shoulder was wet. That was not the problem. The problem was the needle going through the jaw.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:27]:
That was the real issue of the cheek that was actually going on. Anger oftentimes presents itself that way. You will express itself one way when the reality is something else. It's why one of the greatest identifiers of a hidden addiction is anger in somebody's life. They feel so out of control in this one area that they can't admit to, they can't help but express it in another area. And so whenever I look at this idea of what anger looks like within our lives, we have to first of all, recognize anger is a natural human emotion. We're fallen people in a fallen world. Things should make us angry.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:06]:
If you don't look at the injustice around us, if we don't look at the struggle of our brothers and sisters from different nationalities, different backgrounds, different races, different socioeconomic classes, if there's not a sense now of a holy injustice that's there, then we're not aligned with who Jesus is. Let's face it. Jesus flipping over the tables. That was not like a playful, ha, ha, let's see how things go. So anger is a natural human emotion. And yet it's interesting here that the text is not saying having anger is sin, but it does say, be careful. Frank Thielman was my theology professor growing up, was my theology professor in seminary. And so he used to always say of this passage that he interpreted as, if you have to be angry, don't sin.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:54]:
In other words, you might have some choice in this. Yeah, but.
Dena Davidson [00:13:57]:
Yeah, that's good.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:58]:
But you don't necessarily connect the two. But you need to recognize there is a danger within this that anger can very quickly lead you to. And why is that? Anger fixates on self so often. Unholy anger, unrighteous anger, righteous anger is outward focus. Jesus, right, is having compassion for these people. But for us, anger tends to focus on ourselves, which then empowers us to justify our a whole lot of bad actions. And it feels worthy when in reality it's not. It's because our perspective is messed up in that moment.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:34]:
That's a long diatribe, Dina.
Dena Davidson [00:14:35]:
That's good.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:37]:
Does that upset you in any way?
Dena Davidson [00:14:38]:
It does upset me. No. I am righteously content at this moment having received all that. I feel like overall, I think the thing that God has shown me over and over again with anger, capitalizing on what you were saying, just about it's a natural human emotion. And if you. You don't feel it, then there's something off in you. I myself have sat with people who have been unable to access anger. We've been recounting part of the job of pastors, sometimes just sitting with people as they're recounting.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:09]:
You might be sitting with one right now, right?
Dena Davidson [00:15:13]:
Recounting like, the worst things that have ever happened to them and just being a pastor to them and hearing them. And it's so crazy. Cause I know that there will be something off when it's just like flat, emotionless. And I'll say, why is there no emotion right here? And sometimes because they're too afraid to go there. But oftentimes it's because they have said to themselves, anger is not a permissible emotion for me to feel. And so. And so I'm not gonna be able to feel it. And inevitably, what I always do is I take them to the psalms and I have them read a lament Psalm.
Dena Davidson [00:15:46]:
I have them read an imprecatory psalm of just crying out to God about the injustice. And I think it's just a really important theological point for us to mark that God is slow to anger. He reveals himself, but there is anger in our God. He is slow. He has long burning wrath. But if we do not understand that wrath is an attribute of God and it is just and it is holy because it's directed at the right thing, then we're going to misunderstand God and a lot of his actions. So too, if there's no place for us to be angry in a righteous way, I think what it will lead us to be is numb and apathetic. And that's what I found in myself is if I don't give myself healthy access to the emotion of anger.
Dena Davidson [00:16:31]:
I'm going to numb out, and it's inevitably going to make me disconnect from the world. I will live in my brain in this fantasy instead of really interacting with people and solving the problems of the world. So it is a hard needle to thread, but it is the one that the Apostle Paul calls us to. In your anger, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. Okay, so practically, Kevin. So if a couple is free, will.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:56]:
Jenny and I go to bed angry?
Dena Davidson [00:16:58]:
Yes. Should you stay up all night? Oh, how dare you defy the scriptures. Do not let the sun go. Okay, tell us.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:06]:
I mean, my interpretation of what's going on here is there's a very good principle that is taking place in this moment, which is, deal with it. Don't let it linger. Do not let it continue in any way. But I do think that because I have heard this, I have heard some marriage guys gals say, oh, well, the text is very clear. I don't think that's necessarily the point, because here's what I have found to some extent, that some anger is the byproduct of weariness and that it causes you to put things out of context, to make things bigger than what they actually are. Sometimes we actually don't need a conversation. We need a good sleep. And then we wake up the next morning, we're like, nah, we're actually pretty good about this now, if the issue is still present.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:46]:
Okay, now let's get to work. And now we're in a better mental space to do so. I would actually equate this and you could find me heretical and kick me off your podcast at this alone if you want to. I would find this in the same kind of proverbial vein of spoil the rod, spare the rod, spoil the child of. All right. That is very clearly talking about the importance of discipline. I do not think that that is a clear command to spank. They're just using the imagery of the day to get this bigger picture.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:14]:
I think here it is using imagery to make the point of don't let it linger. But the idea of one night's sleep, I think that's fine.
Dena Davidson [00:18:23]:
Yeah. And for all of our absolute literalists here, you don't have the control of when the sun goes down. So odds are, if you're staying up late fighting, you've already disobeyed the verse. So I think there's a broader principle here. In your anger, do not sin. Sometimes that means that you can't have the conversation right then. Because if you have the conversation right then you're gonna be sinning right and left because you're so angry. So you need to let the spirit get a control.
Dena Davidson [00:18:48]:
Do not give the devil a foothold. Okay, what does this mean? That the enemy can have access into our life. This is a little bit scary language.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:00]:
Yeah. So I do think that we have the concept here of the day. One of the dangers of anger is we can turn away from a focus on others and toward a focus on self. Something in my opinion, Jesus would not have done in the midst of his righteous anger. So we now turn it back to ourselves. Well, whenever that happens now, we can very quickly start living our lives based out of grievance. Either something has happened to me that shouldn't have, or things have not happened to me that I think they should have. And I was listening to an expert this past week.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:32]:
Cause we're living in a time in which there's been some horrible acts of violence. And the funny thing about that is that's an evergreen statement. The sad thing about that, it's an evergreen statement. We could have shot this at any point if that's the case. And he said that when somebody does harm, that harm is often birthed out of a sense of grievance. They feel like things that have happened to them or not having them are unjust. So I'm going to have to create that harm in your life. That's how it begins to express.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:58]:
And I think this text is warning us about that, that whenever we allow anger to sit in us just for a little bit, very quickly our attention turns inwardly to ourselves. We fixate on that anger. It has a dominant impact on our lives. And then we act out in unjust ways, which is going to bring glory and honor to the devil. And the text here is saying, don't do that. Well, how do you stop that? Well, you stop that by making sure that anger doesn't sit within you. And it would be the equivalent if I went to the doctor today and he said, hey, you have a very aggressive cancer. They would not say, and so three years from now, we're going to take this out of you.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:32]:
I'd be in surgery. Certain cancers could be in surgery tonight. That's how we have to look at anger. That it is a cancer within us that if not removed, will quickly grow, metastasize, and impact every aspect of who we are. And not in a God honoring way.
Dena Davidson [00:20:48]:
Yes. And I think the key question to Ask I would say is, do I have the attitude that Christ has towards this person that my anger is directed at? I mean, have anger at every circumstance that you want to. But the sinful anger usually comes in when we're dealing with human beings. That's who we're gonna be sinning towards, whether in our thoughts or in our actions. So when you're talking about a human that has wronged you or is wronging someone, you just keep asking the question, do I have the attitude of Jesus Christ towards this person? If the answer is no, then you are in the spot where the enemy has access. You are in the spot where you're saying there's separation between me and Jesus. And that is where the enemy can step in and have the foothold. And it's not within our power, by the way, to all of a sudden be perfect like Jesus.
Dena Davidson [00:21:40]:
This is not an act that I can do on my own. That's why we need to turn ourselves over to the control of the spirit and say, Jesus, I am angry. I am angry at this person. I don't want what you want for them. I want what I want for them. I have not fully turned them over to you. And so I ask that you take my heart, you take my life, and that you transform me so that I have the same heart and mind and attitude that you have towards this person.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:06]:
And I do think within that is whenever I view other people wrongly, generally speaking, it's not that I'm viewing them incorrect, it's that I'm viewing them through a partial truth lens. Because a lot of times what I feel like they've done to me, they have done. And actually you can probably make the case that all of us have this sin filled aspect, rebels at heart, all those kind of things. But the problem is I leave it there and I don't go to the other step. But this person is also created in the image of God, loved by God, Jesus died for them, all those kind of things. And so that's why it comes back to this idea of what does it mean to speak truthfully? How do you speak truthfully to your anger? It means whenever I'm angry at somebody, instead of a bigger picture, most of the time I'm not speaking the full truth over them, nor the situation. How can we bring that into a bigger scenario? There's one more aspect on this text that I think we gotta be careful about. Just within a personal reality.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:01]:
You said to kind of lead off the episode of your personality is one bent toward expressing anger in a Much more free flowing kind of way. You're comfortable with anger. I'm not.
Dena Davidson [00:23:12]:
I'm not comfortable with anger. Did I sound like I was comfortable?
Kevin Thompson [00:23:15]:
No. But if you can practice, if you can express it quickly, then you are comfortable. I would be mortified. Oh, matter of fact, those that have come to our married life kind of work here have heard me say this on multiple times. I can't even say that I'm angry.
Dena Davidson [00:23:32]:
Tell me more.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:33]:
I'm frustrated. Okay, I don't like this. So I minimize. I minimize the emotion that is actually there. But here's the problem. Whenever you're minimizing what is actually there, you're not dealing with the reality of the truth. It's actually taken some growth for me to get to the point for me to say I'm angry because for whatever, you can make a thousand different arguments why this is, but in all likelihood, I grew up in a context in which I didn't feel like I had the right to express such big emotions that we don't have time for this. There's too many other things going on for you to express this.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:11]:
My emotions can't be this important. So anger feels like it's too much for me. Now, if we're not very careful, here's what we can do. I can read this text. You and I can read this text and you read this. And your mind immediately goes to all these times in which you've been angry. You've blown your time. Whatever you've done.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:25]:
You're like, oh, conviction man, you're there. I can look at this go, Nah, I don't struggle with this. I'm good.
Dena Davidson [00:24:30]:
Poor Dina.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:31]:
Yeah, poor Shane. But the truth of the matter is, if I stop, it's possible that those who feel like anger doesn't drive them as much, it actually drives them more because it's driving in such a subtle way, we don't even recognize its presence. However, I'm fixated on myself, fixated on this wrong, this injustice here, that injustice there. Don't feel like I can express it, so I actually never deal with it. I don't handle it in any way whatsoever. And then the byproduct of that is I actually spend more time struggling with this issue, all the while never knowing, and let's face it, if Satan had a scheme here, which we know that he does, either I want to give it to him in a way they can't handle, or I want to give it to them in a way that they don't even recognize. And so I Think it's very important for every single listener to recognize at this moment. You struggle with anger, whether you know it or not.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:28]:
Now, for some, it's really easy to recognize. How can we deal with it? For others, is going to take some introspective work to, okay, what does this look like? How does it express itself in my life? And what are the code words that I actually use that are actually just. They're just pronouns of anger.
Dena Davidson [00:25:44]:
Yeah. Wow, that is so fascinating. I see. I never even thought of myself as someone who is, like, okay with expressing anger. But even just hearing you contrast it, I was like, oh, yeah, you're like poor Kevin. But tying it back to the beginning, each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully. Part of that is just telling on yourself. And I've modeled that.
Dena Davidson [00:26:05]:
I've told on myself. I struggle with anger. You've told on yourself in this episode. I struggle with being truthful about anger and not just suppressing it. So I think this is part of what this passage is talking about. The more we entrust ourselves to the truth and tell the truth to the people in our lives, the better in a position we will be to deal with our anger. So moving to application. We've spun some application in.
Dena Davidson [00:26:30]:
I have an application thought. And then I will give you the final word because you so prepared for this podcast, all of your street to get the Bible and all the thoughts that you had. But thank you. In truth, thank you for coming on. I'll be chewing on many of the things that you shared about anger and probably apologizing to Shane. So here's my takeaway. And it's gonna seem like it's the opposite, but I. I had this thought in sermon prep.
Dena Davidson [00:26:57]:
I think about Genesis all the time. And like, I relate every passage back to the fall and to creation. So I think about how Eve saw that the fruit was good and she took some cause it was pleasing to the eye, and she ate it. And then it says, and she gave it to her husband who was there, and he ate it too. And it gives us absolutely no window into what was happening in Adam's mind. What was happening in Adam's heart, we can guess. But you know, what would have been the appropriate response? Anger. Absolute loss and grief.
Dena Davidson [00:27:33]:
That this one that had come out of him and was his help meet had done the literal, most unhelpful thing in human history, all five seconds of it to that point. But what if Adam at that moment had felt anger and righteously expressed anger? Anger. I know that the gospel story probably would have still played out because someone else would have caused the fall. But man, Adam, what if in that moment he had felt the brokenness and felt anger instead of just passively reaching for the fruit? So I think sometimes that refusal to feel anger can lead us into some passive sin. So my application is going to be take a moment in your week and actually feel some righteous anger. There are things that are broken in this world, probably broken in your home. Give yourself a minute to feel the anger and process that anger with God.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:27]:
Yeah. Oh, that's good. I don't have an application nearly that good. But no, that's very. And you think about, let's go back into Eve, Eve feeling like being lied to by the tempter of God's holding out on you. There's the grievance, right, that then expresses itself in doing this action of tremendous harm, in contrast to how we live our lives or should live our lives, which is a good has been done to us that we do not deserve, which creates within us a gratitude that expresses itself in a generosity. But my big takeaway on this passage is just this idea of we don't think that we have a lot of falsehood. Yeah, white lies here and there.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:10]:
However, do I live every single day in the fullness of the truth of who God is? Or do I live off of a premise that is something much smaller? And I think it's those falsehoods in my life that then empower me to become fixated on things that don't really matter, to have brokenness in relationships. Because I'm minimizing the bigger story into this day to day interaction, not valuing who these other people are, who God made them to be. I don't have my own faith where it should be, that I wake up this morning recognizing God has given me this day. It's a gift, it's a blessing to be where I'm at. I get to express the gifts he's given me that I don't even own or possess. But he's chosen to make me part of his plan. And the fact that I live in such falsehood of this is all on me. I've got to accomplish things people are holding out on me.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:00]:
And literally the kind of the Western American pursuit of what life would look like, it's a lie. And life is found in this more beautiful truth. Now what would it look like if I lived in that way? Well, it's probably next week's episode is my guess. Then the way the chapter ends, then I would be kind, compassionate to you and others forgiving each other just as Christ forgave us. That's the pathway to this is to let the falsehood go, to put on truth and then the transformation of our hearts begin to take place.
Dena Davidson [00:30:36]:
So helpful. There you go. That's a vision casting for our very next episode. I like it.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:42]:
One of your co workers might be on or it might be me wandering through the parking lot and it's still unclear.
Dena Davidson [00:30:46]:
Is this the Bible study pod or the changed eye?
Kevin Thompson [00:30:48]:
Changed one.
Dena Davidson [00:30:48]:
I don't know if we changed one. We didn't have ever changed it back. Next week we will be joined again with Kurt. I know you've been missing him. I've been missing him. I'm so glad Kevin wandered in so that I didn't have to do this podcast alone. So thank you so much for saying yes and for faithfully teaching the Bible. I hope you are loving the book of Ephesians.
Dena Davidson [00:31:05]:
Spend some time reflecting on anger and also much more importantly, the bigger story that God has invited us into and shared with us through His Word.