Curt Harlow [00:00:00]:
Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Bible Study Podcast. It is the podcast where we go over the passage that all 10 of our campuses here at Bayside are teaching. The podcast.
Mark Clark [00:00:10]:
Podcast.
Curt Harlow [00:00:11]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:00:12]:
What this is.
Curt Harlow [00:00:12]:
It's the 1 podcast in the Thrive network of podcasts, is actually based on the Bible.
Mark Clark [00:00:16]:
Oh. Except the Mark Clark podcast, which is a preaching series through books of the Bible. So make sure you. Okay. Subscribe.
Curt Harlow [00:00:23]:
Okay.
Mark Clark [00:00:24]:
But the rest of them, we can both agree.
Curt Harlow [00:00:25]:
We can both agree that Beat the Odds, Kevin's podcast, but if he started,
Mark Clark [00:00:32]:
should start what we call Beat the odds.
Curt Harlow [00:00:33]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:00:33]:
It's just about beating. Change the odds, get more views each and every week. Yes. The same topic that he chooses.
Curt Harlow [00:00:40]:
Back to those of you who tuned in for the Bible. We're in John chapter four, so.
Mark Clark [00:00:45]:
Oh, so good.
Curt Harlow [00:00:46]:
We're in the fourth chapter of this lengthy and awesome gospel. And so just before we get going, just for context.
Mark Clark [00:00:53]:
Yes.
Curt Harlow [00:00:54]:
We have had a massive baptism revival at the Jordan. This is my son, of whom I'm well pleased. And then we go from there. There's a wedding. Water turns into wine. Every Napa Christian's favorite pastor.
Mark Clark [00:01:06]:
Yes. Then we have 900 bottles he creates.
Curt Harlow [00:01:09]:
We have the making of a whip and the turning over tables. So it's a lot of action.
Mark Clark [00:01:14]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:01:14]:
Then the action goes down to a more micro setting. It's Jesus and Nicodemus.
Mark Clark [00:01:20]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:01:20]:
The most famous, well known, I should say, verse in the Bible, John 3:16. And then we get into this incredible, amazing Jesus with another one on one situation. Jesus with the Samaritan woman.
Mark Clark [00:01:37]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:01:38]:
So here's my question for you, Mark. At this point, what is the gospel trying to accomplish? What is this intro? These four or five stories in the first four chapters, what are they trying to set up?
Mark Clark [00:01:50]:
Yeah, I think there's a. There's a thesis at the beginning in the prologue or the first bunch of verses, John chapter one, where he says, you know, the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. I think probably the first bunch of chapters are. Are doing that. So in chapter two, the water and the wine, he tells us the six stone purification jars, they were used for Jewish purification ritual. Then he becomes the new wine. And he's superseding religion.
Mark Clark [00:02:19]:
He. He's superseding Judaism. And he's saying a new way has birthed in the universe and the old way of religion is dead. The very next story is that story, but now applied to the temple. So now this symbol of Jewish purific, you know, whatever I'm the new temple, right? So I'm the new water or the new wine. I'm the new temple then in Nicodemus, I'm the new birth, right? He's, he's going on these old ways. Are you giving birth to a new way of spirit and blah, blah. And it's a similar story now because of course you go, the climax of the story is don't you don't worship in Jerusalem or this mountain, the Samaritan mountain, but in spirit and truth.
Mark Clark [00:03:02]:
So these old ways are dying, these new ways are birthing. I just talked to the elite Jew. Now I'm talking to the non elite Samaritan woman who were two groups that didn't like each other. Class, race, religion, it's all being superseded. Shame. It's all being superseded by Jesus. And I think John is like going after it. And it's so cool because even the way you described it, you have action, you know, temple action, water and wine.
Mark Clark [00:03:29]:
And then it's two conversations that last two full chapters. A conversation with Nicodemus, a conversation with this woman at the well. It's beautiful. So I think John's got lots of going on, going on, but I think that's a big.
Curt Harlow [00:03:43]:
Everything new. Yeah, everything new.
Mark Clark [00:03:45]:
And it's book, Book one. So the whole sermon series that we're doing, we only did what is considered kind of book one of John, John 1 to the end of 11. And it's called the Book of Signs. You know, DA Carson, a lot of these commentators frame the first 11 chapters as the book of signs. John tells us the first sign is this. He tells us the second sign is this. And then he leaves us to count. And then he.
Mark Clark [00:04:06]:
And then Lazarus happens in chapter 11. And that's kind of the, the last miracle or sign until the death and resurrection of Jesus. Because then the whole book pivots away and starts into just Jesus talking for eight chapters anyway. So I think he's, he's doing that and he's giving us all these signs and these conversations to tell us, look, this one came. The way of Moses is done. The way of Jesus is superseding it. And here's a bunch of people and their experience of it. So I think that's partly what's going on.
Mark Clark [00:04:35]:
What do you think?
Curt Harlow [00:04:36]:
Well, I, I think who is Jesus? He's just telling you who Jesus. He literally starts off this. He's the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was. And then you get all of these, you know, how, how the only person that has actually come from heaven is the one that was in heaven. So you have all of these deity references. So I. Jesus says in this passage, going to say, I am.
Curt Harlow [00:05:00]:
So I love the new new, new, new new. And then also, before I teach you, before I let Jesus teach for eight chapters, I'm going to tell you who he is. Yes, you're going to. And so, like we've been saying here, Jesus in his own words, or the Jesus you never knew? Jesus defined by Jesus.
Mark Clark [00:05:19]:
Yes.
Curt Harlow [00:05:20]:
As opposed to our assumption about who Jesus is. And this is incredibly revealing. Like I would say, the way Jesus. The right way to look at this as we're about to read it, the way Jesus treats this woman and then later as disciples when they try to interrupt him, that'll be next week, is the way he treats us. This is. You want to know how Jesus is going to treat you? What you can guarantee he's going to do? This is what he's going to do. So I'll read it real quick, and then I'll throw out a couple more questions. We can banter over it.
Curt Harlow [00:05:51]:
So if you're driving, don't rest, start reading. If you're not driving, plot your Bible. Here we are. Chapter four, verse one of the Gospel of John. Now, Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee. Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to the town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot around Jacob had given to his son Joseph.
Curt Harlow [00:06:30]:
Jacob's well was there. And Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon when a Samaritan woman came to draw water. Jesus said to her, will you give me a drink? His disciples had gone into town to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him, you are a Jewish, I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink? For the Jews do not associate with the Samaritans. Jesus answered her, if you knew the gift of God, and who is it that asked you for a drink, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water. Sir, the woman said, you have nothing to draw with, and this well is deep.
Curt Harlow [00:07:14]:
Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this well and drank from him himself, as did also his sons and his livestock? Jesus answered, everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life. The woman said to him, sir, give me this water so that I may. So I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water. He told her, go and call your husband to come back. I have no husband, she replied. Jesus said to her, you are right when you say that you have no husband.
Curt Harlow [00:07:57]:
The fact is you have had five husbands, and the man you are now with and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have said is quite true, sir. The woman said, I could tell that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, and. But you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem. Woman, Jesus replied, believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father. Neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know.
Curt Harlow [00:08:30]:
We worship what we do know. For salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the spirit and in truth. For they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the spirit and in truth. The woman said, I know the Messiah called Christ is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us. Then Jesus replied, I, the one who's speaking to you, I am he.
Curt Harlow [00:09:07]:
And then the story goes on. We'll cover that next week with the deceptive preach. No, it is so.
Mark Clark [00:09:12]:
When you're reading this, it's so many beautiful things. We got 20 minutes.
Curt Harlow [00:09:17]:
Yes. So many beautiful things. So, first of all, let's just. Let's start right at the beginning. A very curious line here. It says, jesus left. Why in the world did John want us to know that Jesus leaves the Jordan and goes back towards Galilee? What's the significance there?
Mark Clark [00:09:40]:
Well, I think he's got to get him walking through Samaria. Is that what you're getting at? Or are you getting that you get a different angle on this? He's got to get him going to Samaria. Where? When you look at a map, I don't know if this is what you're asking this for, but when I'm thinking of this. So Galilee is. Is in a particular part. And then you have Samaria, and then you have, like, Jerusalem down at the. On the south. Right.
Mark Clark [00:10:03]:
And what. What separates Galilee from Jerusalem is this place called Samaria. Cuts right through the heart of the whole thing.
Curt Harlow [00:10:10]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:10:11]:
So Interesting. I don't know, I, I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, but, but RT France wrote a commentary on Matthew. And I remember at the very beginning of it, he puts the map and I, I'm not a big map guy. I know you love, you love thinking. I know you. I love it too, but I'm not that way. So geography, to me, when you start looking into it, you can see why it's important.
Curt Harlow [00:10:32]:
Right?
Mark Clark [00:10:33]:
So what he talks about is that Galilee was seen. It was the fishermen. It was actually a rich community. There was. People were doing very well because they would have the entrepreneurial ventures of these fishing companies and whatever. And Jesus spends, you know, three years of his life up there in kind of the country. And so Jerusalem down south is, is the Harvard of the day.
Curt Harlow [00:10:56]:
Right?
Mark Clark [00:10:57]:
All the elitists would be down there studying Torah, memorizing it.
Curt Harlow [00:11:02]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:11:02]:
That's where the universities were. That's where cnn, you know, whatever, right. So you have Jerusalem, then you got this Podunk town up here. And so RT Francis, it's almost like when Jesus ends up in Jerusalem and he's throwing over the tables and he's doing all these things in the, in the Manhattan, it'd be like a Texan, right, Showing up in Manhattan, right? And, and he would sound like, hey, everyone, I'm the one to save you from your sins. Right? And they'd be like, who's this country bumpkin loser from Galilee?
Curt Harlow [00:11:35]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:11:36]:
Who knows nothing, you know, so that was really helpful to me that, my goodness, was Jesus seen as a, as a Texan. Had to be in Manhattan.
Curt Harlow [00:11:45]:
Had to be.
Mark Clark [00:11:45]:
What a great.
Curt Harlow [00:11:46]:
In the Book of Acts, they, they say, oh, these guys following Jesus, we know they're Galileans from their accent.
Mark Clark [00:11:53]:
Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating.
Curt Harlow [00:11:54]:
No, Jesus, that image is walking into the temple going, why are you changing money up here in the Gentile court?
Mark Clark [00:12:02]:
This is meant for the prayer of the nations. Okay, so, yes, anyway, so then he's got to get to Samaria, of course, which goes right through the center because
Curt Harlow [00:12:10]:
these people were in my outline, so. Very true. I think he. The implication of the text is very, very clear. He hears something from the Father about Samaria because the next verse says, now he had to go through Samaria. He didn't have to go through.
Mark Clark [00:12:24]:
Sure, sure.
Curt Harlow [00:12:25]:
In fact, an observant Jew would have went west up, just west of the Jordan, right along the Jordan Bank. That's the freeway that had all the Jewish Motel Sixes and all the Jewish. Dennis and all the right. You know, you don't have, you don't have any observant Jews taking that road through Samaria, but he had to go through Samaria. And so I, there's two ideas, I think in here. Number one, we are, we are introduced to this idea that happens in all four gospels a lot. And Jesus was not swayed by the crowds at all. There was no value in his popularity to him.
Curt Harlow [00:13:02]:
So he. I think it's like 40 different times, 30 different times, he either tells the crowd to leave, tells them if they're going to stay, they better eat his body and drink his blood, or in some way he sneaks away from the crowd where we think the point is getting a crowd.
Mark Clark [00:13:23]:
Right.
Curt Harlow [00:13:24]:
He needed to get away from the crowd to make sure he was doing the will of the Father. So there's, there's a beautiful humility in that. And then also I think just John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, he had to go, he had to go through Samaria. Nothing. I have a map in my outline this weekend, by the way. Yeah, of course. To make this way, he had to go to Samaria. Now, so let me ask you this question.
Curt Harlow [00:13:51]:
When Jesus asked this woman, give me a drink, is he just, you think he's just going, okay, I showed up here, Father, I'm here. Where you want me to go? And. Or is he kind of deliberately going, I think this is the one I'm here for. And so I'm going to start with this interrogative and it's going to lead to a persuasive.
Mark Clark [00:14:15]:
That's probably what it is.
Curt Harlow [00:14:16]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:14:18]:
So Ray yesterday in staff meeting showed an eight minute clip from the Chosen on this. And I don't know if you've. Have you seen this scene? I have chosen.
Curt Harlow [00:14:28]:
Well, Kirsten just showed it to me like 10 minutes ago. My youth basket.
Mark Clark [00:14:31]:
It is fantastic.
Curt Harlow [00:14:32]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:14:33]:
So I, I don't know how I don't end up showing this on the weekend.
Curt Harlow [00:14:36]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:14:37]:
Because it's eight minutes that you don't even have to do a scripture reading. You just show that.
Curt Harlow [00:14:41]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:14:41]:
And it's got the emotion, it's beautiful. And it really does project, you know, that he, he's kind of playing with her a bit. He's. I want to get in a conversation about water, right. And Jacob's well and Israel and the story, you know, Jacob of course is named Israel. And so here you've got this story about what a true Israelite is and what a true Jew is and you Jews say this and blah, blah, you know, all this. He wants to enter into this conversation with her. He, He's.
Mark Clark [00:15:05]:
I really do think when you're reading the story, you go, you already have read chapter one. He. He's. God, he knows what this woman. He knows. Obviously, he knows her five husbands, right? And what's cool in the, in the. The chosen scene is like, he says that, but then he does the whole. Your first husband's name was this, and he wasn't very nice to you, and your second husband smelled like oranges on your wedding night.
Mark Clark [00:15:31]:
And now every time you walk through the market, you're reminded of who he was. And it's this beautiful, very great, artistic, great writing of like, oh, gosh, he knows all five of her husbands. He knows exactly what her shame, you know, probably get into this. Her shame. She, you know, as commentators tell us, you know, a woman, they tended to go to the wells with everyone in the morning because it was cooler. She's by herself at noon, which means she's. Shame. The community doesn't like her.
Mark Clark [00:15:59]:
She's ashamed of her life. Because divorce in a very conservative culture back then, divorce and remarriage was a big deal. Five times, you're seen as a disaster. I mean, today's culture, if you're married five times, you're seen as a disaster, Right? Back then, in a far more shame and guilt culture, she was there by herself and this. And Jesus wants to crack open this conversation with her. You have all this shame. You have all this guilt. And I want to talk to you about all of that, and I'm going to start it coming back to your question with this conversation about water.
Mark Clark [00:16:32]:
And I want to make it metaphorical, just like he does with the food. You know, they come up, I think, right after the story, they come up and go, hey, you gotta eat. And he's like, I have food that you. That you don't know of. And it's like, where did you get this food? It's like, he's going, metaphors here. He's got, you know, so this is that. Yeah. So I think he knows.
Mark Clark [00:16:49]:
What do you think?
Curt Harlow [00:16:49]:
I think he knows.
Mark Clark [00:16:50]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:16:50]:
I, you know, and I'll tell you why. It's the pattern. So if you look at Jesus when he engages someone without a question, it is always a harsh rebuke. You brood of vipers, right? He didn't go, do you think you're a brood of vipers?
Mark Clark [00:17:04]:
Yeah. What do you think about vipers? What do y' all think about vipers?
Curt Harlow [00:17:08]:
So I would. I would say, what color Is your tomb. Is it whitewashed? You know, no. He. He makes these declarative statements. You Buddha vipers, You whitewashed tombs. Woe to you. Seven woes.
Curt Harlow [00:17:24]:
Then when he wants to engage a person, it's almost always beginning in a question. And. And this question, super provocative because what he's saying is, can I put my lips on a piece of household pottery that a Samaritan will drink from?
Mark Clark [00:17:45]:
Right.
Curt Harlow [00:17:45]:
And a Samaritan woman. So he. He's just. With that one statement. If I'm reading this, my first century ears. This is a shocking thing. I'm already shocked. I'm probably.
Curt Harlow [00:17:56]:
This is the whole argument and the first part of Acts. Why did you go to Cornelius's house? You went in his house. You went into his house, Cornelius. Yeah. And everyone spoke in tongues. And we baptized him. What?
Mark Clark [00:18:10]:
Right. Because to those listening, the Samaritans were enemies of the Jews. They did not like each other. They were like this offshoot. Like, that's why in the parable in Luke, the good Samaritan was an oxymoron. That be like saying the good Nazi. Like, that's the fact that the Samaritan is the one who helped the guy who had fallen and been robbed. That was the grenade that went off in the culture.
Mark Clark [00:18:36]:
So we. We know that because we've studied the Bible. But a lot of people are like, what's this big deal? But who cares? A Samaritan, the.
Curt Harlow [00:18:42]:
The.
Mark Clark [00:18:43]:
The piano underneath this that we don't pick up on unless we know is the Samaritans were hated. These were arch enemies. So the idea that he has to go to her. To your point about the drinking of the thing. And so they're already. They're already hated religiously. They're hated from a. She's hated from a class and a sexual.
Mark Clark [00:19:02]:
All the layers of.
Curt Harlow [00:19:03]:
Yes. Every woman could be.
Mark Clark [00:19:05]:
She's all the things.
Curt Harlow [00:19:06]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:19:07]:
And nothing could be contrasted more than an elite religious Jew. Nicodemus. And now Jesus is for everybody.
Curt Harlow [00:19:15]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:19:16]:
And he's doing this thing with her, which is.
Curt Harlow [00:19:17]:
I'll probably spend beautiful 5 to 10 minutes talking about how deep was this divide. So you go first of all, people say the Samaritans were interbred with the Assyrians. The other peoples that the Assyrians conquered, they come in and they conquer the Northern kingdom. They deposit the refugees of their other conquering. And this is who the. The mainly women and children that are left over after the decimation of the Assyrians. They interbreed with these other prisoners of war. So you have a very deep divide there in that you have this intermarrying, but you can look.
Curt Harlow [00:19:54]:
And this division between Samaritan, who would occupy that land, and who occupies Judea goes even deeper than that. Most of the history of Israel is a civil war. And so. So you have centuries of civil war. Syrians come in and conquer. They deposit refugees there, they intermarry with the refugees. Then those children say, no, we're the true worshipers. We've got.
Curt Harlow [00:20:19]:
You guys are the fake and phony ones. We're the truth. So you have deep seated civil war for many generations. You have interbreeding. So you have a racial, ethnic issue, and then you have a theological war. This could not. There couldn't be more separation. Right.
Mark Clark [00:20:35]:
Who's. Whose mountain is more sacred?
Curt Harlow [00:20:38]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:20:39]:
Theological and. Yeah, all of it.
Curt Harlow [00:20:41]:
Yeah, exactly. So Jesus talking to her. Jesus is enough. We could have enough.
Mark Clark [00:20:48]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:20:49]:
And then he's like, no, no, no, I want to drink from your pottery.
Mark Clark [00:20:54]:
I want to get. Talking about water so that ultimately he can get to the place where he's like, look, and this is the point for us, you know, living in today. Jesus did something that changed the universe. Like, he. He moved life from. When he says to her, like, neither on this mountain or that mountain. It's all about spirit and truth. He's saying all this, all this nonsense.
Mark Clark [00:21:17]:
I mean, it's not nonsense. I shouldn't say that. All this stuff that used to run the universe, sacred temples, rituals, holy days, holy lands, it's all over, right? This is done now. There is a time now that I have brought.
Curt Harlow [00:21:33]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:21:34]:
Where, like, when we go to Israel. One of our pastors in sermon prep yesterday was talking about this. But you go to Israel. He brought his wife. And she. And she. She's going around like our little geeky theology brains, like, oh, I'm on the Sea of Galilee and I look at that rock and it's important. She's like, all right, we're just gonna.
Mark Clark [00:21:48]:
We're seeing a bunch of rocks. She's like, the great thing is I have Jesus with me every day.
Curt Harlow [00:21:54]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:21:55]:
So none of this is all that impressive.
Curt Harlow [00:21:57]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:21:57]:
It's like just a place, right? And something has happened in the universe where it's like, yeah, in. In a sense, she's saying something which is John's kind of point is like, there was a time where all of this mattered, but it doesn't matter anymore because Jesus is saying, I need. I need people in Korea to believe in me. I need Canadians. I need Americans. I need Chinese I think even Canadians. I need Filipinos. I need.
Mark Clark [00:22:24]:
Ergo, I can't. This whole time when. If you were God's people, you had to come to a particular temple and live in a particular land. You should do some holy wars for this strip of turf in the Middle East. All of it's over because these people aren't getting out of travel here. And that's okay because true worshipers are now people do it in spirit and truth, and we don't need this anymore. And this is a. I mean, it's.
Mark Clark [00:22:52]:
That's the huge gospel message of all of this. But it takes all these conversations to get us there.
Curt Harlow [00:22:58]:
We love to confine God to a temple. Yeah. And an earthly temple, not even the actual temple he wants to be in, which is us.
Mark Clark [00:23:06]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:23:06]:
So, you know, I always say there's three temples in the Bible. The first one is the Heavenly temple, which has got a great pool. It's a glassy sea. It's got a great sound system, live music, cherubim 24 7. And, you know, like, if you're going to do that old MTV thing, tour of the cribs.
Mark Clark [00:23:22]:
Cribs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:23:24]:
That. The first temple. Why would you ever have a second temple?
Mark Clark [00:23:27]:
Right.
Curt Harlow [00:23:27]:
Well, the first temple had one problem, is no sinners were redeemed in it.
Mark Clark [00:23:32]:
Right.
Curt Harlow [00:23:32]:
So God makes the second temple to be among us. He's in the holy of holies. Then the curtain is rent in two when Jesus says it is finished. And then we have the third temple, the temple that's better than all the precious materials of the earthly temple that Solomon built and that Herod Reed built. And better than the heavenly temple with 247 Hosanna music. Live music is you.
Mark Clark [00:24:02]:
Right.
Curt Harlow [00:24:03]:
You are the temple of God. And so. But we would love to take it at least one step back. So, like my old church, I was youth pastor at Almost split over. Can you have coffee in the sanctuary? Right. And even the fact that we call it a sanctuary, of course, they. They. We.
Curt Harlow [00:24:20]:
We are more comforted by the idea of can I keep God in that room all week and visit him on Sundays than we are with neither of these mountains is the right place. You are the place where I want the worship to happen.
Mark Clark [00:24:33]:
Yeah. Amen.
Curt Harlow [00:24:34]:
So now I wanted to ask you
Mark Clark [00:24:35]:
about this because it's so God does not dwell in. In temples made with human hands. That's a sermon in the Book of Acts. That's the most insane.
Curt Harlow [00:24:42]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:24:43]:
Yes, he does.
Curt Harlow [00:24:44]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:24:44]:
That's what all this is about.
Curt Harlow [00:24:45]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:24:46]:
Why you give me 25 chapters in Exodus for yes. That says the curtains have to be if he doesn't live there. It's shift. Is that. Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:24:53]:
Or the, the, the other thing is, you know the Romans saying that the Christians were atheists because they had no temple.
Mark Clark [00:24:58]:
Yeah. They had no. Yeah. No idols in the. Yeah. Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:25:01]:
Where do you go exactly. So okay, what's interesting me. We tend to think, you know, first century people, they're so different than us. And yet here she does something that is just every college student I've talked to on every campus, most of the one on ones I have with marriages that are in trouble when he gets start getting to the issue. She wants to fight about theology.
Mark Clark [00:25:24]:
That's good.
Curt Harlow [00:25:25]:
And she, she has two major distractions.
Mark Clark [00:25:28]:
Yes.
Curt Harlow [00:25:28]:
In here. One is about you don't have the right equipment this to handle this well and do you think your water is better than my water? And the second one is let's fight about theology. Talk to me about just this idea of pushing God away that you see in this woman.
Mark Clark [00:25:45]:
So Ray and his debo yesterday he had three W's. You'll love, you'll love this, right? The well, the woman and the way. That's what, that's what it broke it down. So, so the well was of course we all have these wells that we bring, you know, this, that we go to. Yeah. The weights that we carry and the things that we go to to satisfy ourselves. Right. This and this and this.
Mark Clark [00:26:07]:
And then of course the woman and all of her shame and stuff. And then the way of Jesus. But, and he talked about this, this, the light like let's just distract. I think we do this, I think, I think when Jesus starts to press on something like hey, I want, you know, I want this piece of your life to clean up or I'm calling you to do this. We, we make it abstract and we make it conceptual or theological or whatever because sometimes that's easier than just dealing with a thing, you know. So I think I've done this in my life a ton. I think to your point, Bible college, like you don't sit around in Bible college and be like, hey man, what's the sin in your life that we need to solve? It's like, hey, how many, what do you think this verse means and all that, you know, but our, our parents are so stupid because they didn't understand this and megachurches suck. You know, we should all hang out in the grocery store cuz where two or three are gathered, you know, and it's like okay, so we.
Mark Clark [00:27:03]:
We. It's like, we don't.
Curt Harlow [00:27:05]:
That was pretty good hipster accent.
Mark Clark [00:27:06]:
I was like, hey, Britney, let's go to the mall and just hang out. So, yeah, I think that happens all the time. I think it still happens.
Curt Harlow [00:27:13]:
Here's where I see. I see it in the passion to criticize other churches, denominations, and techniques. So, like, I think there's a great place for talking about, is our theology pure? Are we drifting? Is our.
Mark Clark [00:27:29]:
Sure. Of course we have to.
Curt Harlow [00:27:30]:
You know, there's a great place. But I think it should be talking about from a place of brokenness, you know, a place of sadness, that we're not mature enough to have civil conversations about theological differences, especially on secondary issues, as opposed to this idea that we have this conversation that is like, this is my whole call is to correct all of you guys. This is my whole. Yeah, I'm gonna point. And when that happens, what I think is going on there is we are creating drama to not confront. To not being confronted by Jesus about the things he really wants us to be confronted. Absolutely. And so it's.
Curt Harlow [00:28:12]:
It's. And it's interesting, you know, we cry out to God. I cry out to God, God, change me. Make me a better husband, make me kinder. Let me not get cynical. God, just please, as I age, don't let me get cynical. I'm just crying out to God, and then God comes to change me, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Not sure I want to change.
Curt Harlow [00:28:31]:
Yeah, this could be painful.
Mark Clark [00:28:33]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:28:34]:
This might expose me to some people around me that I've got pretty fooled. And so there's this. It's that old duplicity of man. Why doesn't anyone support me? And would you please leave me alone? And I believe both those, by the way. I want more support, and I want everyone to leave me alone.
Mark Clark [00:28:52]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:28:53]:
At the same time, and I think it's the same here. I desperately want to have an encounter with God around the well where he asked me a dangerous question that unlocks a renewed season in my life.
Mark Clark [00:29:03]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:29:04]:
I absolutely do not want him to. I could tell you the five areas. Please don't ask me about Jesus, you know? Sure.
Mark Clark [00:29:12]:
But I. I do think there is a. A sincerity in her conversation.
Curt Harlow [00:29:17]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:29:17]:
I mean, I think we can turn it in as a. As preachers into. When God's telling you to do something, you should. You get distracted by bringing up all this other nonsense, which is classic. But I. When I read the story, I really see her as, like. Like sincere. Like, even in the scene from the Chosen, she's.
Mark Clark [00:29:34]:
She's busy, like, getting water while she's. It's almost like she's not that intense. She's more like, laissez faire about it. Like, she's like, yeah, whatever, bro. Like, you need water. What, like, what water are you talking about? You know, she's not like, what water are you. Meaning, are you from Jacob's well? You know, she's like, just like. This is another interaction.
Curt Harlow [00:29:53]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Clark [00:29:54]:
Through the day.
Curt Harlow [00:29:55]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:29:56]:
And I really think she's. She's talking theology because that's what they. And of course, John wants us to see these layers of Jacob and Waters and Wells. In fact, the opening scene, not to keep coming back to the Chosen, but it's a really good episode. I haven't watched the whole show, but I've seen enough of it. But the opening scene to that episode of the Chosen isn't about Jesus at the well. It's actually a flashback to Jacob and how he gets the well. So the opening, like, 10 minutes is context, Old Testament stuff about the well in this thing, this place that.
Mark Clark [00:30:34]:
Then, of course, half hour later, Jesus walks up to this very well, and there's all this backdrop of Jacob's well, and Jacob is Israel, all this stuff. So anyways, and of course, in John, John chapter one, he said, the angels ascend and descend the son of man. And there's this Jacob stuff going on there, too. So anyway, all that to say, I think this is a beautiful. We see. We see an awesome angle on Jesus here, who's super compassionate with somebody who is dealing with. And I think if we bring this across in our own lives, and no matter what you've done, the shame, the guilt, you, you know, you. You don't live in the right place, you don't worship at the right church.
Mark Clark [00:31:12]:
You've totally messed up your life. I mean, even divorce culture, we could talk a lot about the shame and the guilt that people live in in the modern day, being divorced. And we talked about this in sermon prep. Like, you're going to have people in your audience who feel like God won't use them, save them, bless them, because they've messed up sexually, they've messed up in their marriages, all these things. And here's Jesus going, God's not done with you, right? He'll use anybody.
Curt Harlow [00:31:35]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:31:35]:
Doesn't matter. I know you think religion tells you that he's done with you because you screwed up, right? But that's not the case.
Curt Harlow [00:31:42]:
In actuality, her response to Jesus is better Than Nicodemus.
Mark Clark [00:31:47]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:31:48]:
So Nicodemus is of the elite. He's got the highest level of education. She's an outcast and yet she makes the truer response.
Mark Clark [00:31:55]:
That's good.
Curt Harlow [00:31:56]:
What I kind of hear and hear when I hear and we'll, we'll, we'll go to application next. I, I so I had this season in college. Every on fire Christian in college probably had this season where I would seek out Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons and, and the Church of Boston, Church of Christ, all these guys caught in these sex and cults and I would try to evangelize them and like I, I, this is a tragedy. And after having zero success, 5,000 conversations and zero success, I realized what would happen is we would just do this dance and I would tell them what I read in Kingdom of the Cults and they would tell me what they learned in their anti Christian, how to talk back to Christians. Protestant Christians.
Mark Clark [00:32:42]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:32:42]:
And, and then after a while I just started going, let's not do this right? Let's talk. Because we're I, we're doing the same dance. I know what the next three replies you have and you know what the
Mark Clark [00:32:54]:
next three replies, the definite article in John 1:1 is this, it's a God. And you're like o, we've done this 40 times. Did you ever look at them and say like to your point, hey, what's your story?
Curt Harlow [00:33:05]:
I want, this is exactly what I went to. I said, listen, I know what you're going to say. You know what I'm going to say. You tell me your story, I'll listen really carefully and I won't judge you and I'll just think about your story. Then, then if you want, I'll tell you my story.
Mark Clark [00:33:15]:
And Was that compelling?
Curt Harlow [00:33:16]:
100%. Yeah, 100%. Because I had had a true and deep conversion experience. Most of them had been brought in through a cultural or family dynamic. And so, you know, but few of them not so, but, but most of them. And so I was like, here's I just, just think about this. This is who I am and this is what happened to me. It's great.
Curt Harlow [00:33:43]:
But, but this is the same feeling here. So let's talk about why I'm not why I'm at the well and why you shouldn't be asking me this stuff. And then you're going to say this and I'm going to say that. Then he, he didn't say what she expects.
Mark Clark [00:33:55]:
Right.
Curt Harlow [00:33:55]:
But I'll go back to it. She really doesn't Say what she expects. So I'll go. And here's my little reply. I've been taught about the worship mountains, right? And then he goes, here's what I had to say about the worship mountains. And then finally she goes, oh, my goodness. We're not. We're not having the same dance.
Mark Clark [00:34:13]:
Yeah, this guy. This guy knows some other stuff. I think his biggest thing is, like, there's a time coming in now is when. When I'm doing this. And she's like, wait a minute. What kind of authority. What are you talking about? Like, this is all new.
Curt Harlow [00:34:25]:
Yeah. All right. So application. Well, how in the world does this. What does this mean on Monday morning, this passage to you?
Mark Clark [00:34:31]:
And I think it's kind of what I. Sorry I jumped ahead on the application. I think somebody is, for me, the shame and the guilt of my life, my disaster, my mistakes, my sins. God will still. Because God still pursues me, loves me, wants to use me. No matter how much divorce I've had, no matter how much I've looked at that website I shouldn't look at, no matter how many times I've said that word that I shouldn't say, no matter how many times I've messed up, messed up, messed up, messed up. And here's Jesus starting a conversation with me, not saying, your sin is going to make me dirty, but I'm so pure. I want to make you pure.
Mark Clark [00:35:04]:
And I'm not afraid to lean in. I'm not afraid to walk with you. I'm not afraid to ask you questions. I'm not afraid to stir things up in your life. And he's not done with me. And I just think it's such a beautiful picture of the God we're telling people about in the world versus the gods who wait up in heaven to be found. You know, if I can find them through my right rituals and my. I do pilgrimages and I say the right prayers and I sacrifice the right animals and whatever.
Mark Clark [00:35:32]:
Ever seen the movie Apocalypto? The Mel Gibson movie?
Curt Harlow [00:35:35]:
Yes. Yes.
Mark Clark [00:35:37]:
Just this picture of this culture that needs to sacrifice.
Curt Harlow [00:35:41]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:35:42]:
People.
Curt Harlow [00:35:42]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:35:43]:
On Pyramid, you know, the Mayan, and they cut their heads off and they chuck their bodies down the steps, and you're. Everyone's like, oh, my God. And this is what the world does. Since we've been drawn on walls. We sat, we build fires, and we make sacrifices and animals and cut their throats. And this. He's saying, this is all over. Like, this is the most profound.
Mark Clark [00:36:03]:
This time is done. I'm gonna ultimately Die. It's gonna be a big sacrifice. And then this is all over. So that all the shame and guilt of Mark Clark, all the mistakes I've made and the mistakes I'll make tomorrow are gone. And he wants to empower me and use me anyway. I think that's the big. For me, the big modern application.
Curt Harlow [00:36:23]:
God's not done with you.
Mark Clark [00:36:24]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:36:24]:
God's not done with you, no matter what. I would. I would just add to that. If you have a very deep division in your life. You have stopped talking to your mom. You have.
Mark Clark [00:36:37]:
Because she's a Samaritan.
Curt Harlow [00:36:38]:
Yeah. There's an unredeemable division in your.
Mark Clark [00:36:41]:
And you're. Yeah. They vote wrong. They.
Curt Harlow [00:36:43]:
And I. And I would say yeah. For you to have any hope that that division would be solved, you should have no hope in yourself.
Mark Clark [00:36:52]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:36:53]:
But Jesus is undeterred by deep division. Jesus took on deep division without hesitation and made quick work of it. Yeah, he made quick work of it. Not. Not only we learned. Not only she get a life change. She goes back down the city and a whole Samaritan vision exchange. Then the Book of Acts.
Curt Harlow [00:37:11]:
The first big revival in the Book of Acts outside of Jerusalem is in Samaria.
Mark Clark [00:37:15]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:37:16]:
So not only is there hope for your life individually, you are. There is no unredeemable state, no shame state so hard for Jesus that he can over. Also. There is no division that he is intimidated by.
Mark Clark [00:37:31]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:37:31]:
But I do think he has to do the division. You have to go, Jesus, I need you to do this.
Mark Clark [00:37:36]:
Yeah, absolutely. Very good. Yeah, very good.
Curt Harlow [00:37:39]:
All right, next week. Who do we got next week? Bri, remind me. You told me. At the top, we have West Indian Town. We have the oh, my gosh legend. Too much brain energy legend. If you would like your frontal lobe to grow, come watch the podcast. They're going to continue this story.
Curt Harlow [00:37:55]:
This is only half the story we covered today. The other half is spectacular as well. So thank you for watching the Bible study podcast. Turn in, turn into the Mark Clark.
Mark Clark [00:38:07]:
Yes.
Curt Harlow [00:38:07]:
You. You probably get even better Bible information there.
Mark Clark [00:38:10]:
It started with we had no Bible. It ends with better. It's somewhere in between those two extremes. Love you, Curt. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.